Made me laugh. I love when you write a cheeky sniping toward all, and I love both the translated tomes and Bob Dylan. :-) My hope for aspiring male writers writ large is that they find their joie de vivre, insouciance, and soulful sense of personal responsibility again! Aka, bring me the 2025 Alexander Dumas from an oil rig!
It's not genteel as much as it is conformity to the politically correct standards of a corrupt matriarchy. Adapting to abuse of power strips us of positive masculinity.
I think physical action is masculine. Females can certainly have masculine energy whether it be positive or negative. Receptivity and openness is a feminine force that is required in nature just as much as action.
The action movies try to portray this positive masculinity but I think that it gets censored to show it as an easy thing to do. In real life, taking action requires courage and that's not shown in superhero movies since the hero has super powers. In real life we must take action even though we don't have super powers or connections to powerful people. I think that does a disservice to boys who grow up comparing themselves to super heroes the way we grew up comparing ourselves to models. It ruins the character.
Chivalry is dead though. If it makes a comeback and people start helping women and children who have been harmed by institutions, doctors, ect., then genteel behavior might become a thing, but right now they're all predators preying on the weak, making people weak so that can prey on them, and men who side with power abusers get rewarded.
Loved this piece—almost as much as I love Ray Carver and late-era Bob Dylan. I think the anger you describe stems, at least in part, from being terminally online. There are actual studies on the link between internet saturation and rising levels of rage and depression; my aunt even wrote a book on the subject (the effects of being online, not the fury of American literary men).
Thank you for the other recommendations. I’ve saved this and will probably return with a longer reply soon. For now, I’ll just say that I’m writing an essay defending Carver, and I’ve never really read him as a “masculinity” writer. Maybe it’s because he came from a working-class background and didn’t brandish it like Hemingway did.
I guess I can claim at least some status as a liberal literary guy who's also a "regular guy who's classically masculine but unafraid of vulnerability" in a Perez test, since I was decent at sports and enlisted in the Marine Corps and worked a bunch of jobs that included physical labor. I think at least some of the lefty types who take umbrage with you are doing so because they also pass some of these tests that qualify them as classically masculine, too, and they feel you're kind of caricaturing them rather than attacking what's really there. Most of the online lefty literary types I know aren't quite as doctrinaire or radical about gender as you're painting them to be. Many do blue collar work on the side, because teaching doesn't pay shit. I'm guessing they see some of these kinds of posts as lazy and reductive. I enjoy reading your takedowns, because radical discourse about gender does exist, and it is destructive, and reaction against it did get us a nearly illiterate president surrounded by the kinds of fake Perezes you talked about. I understand that you need to do at least some provocation, but I'm still looking for a prophet who can describe the ideal beyond describing what it isn't. That's a lot harder and doesn't get as many clicks. As much as I enjoy these kinds of posts and agree with much of what's in them, I'd like to see a sustained piece from you describing idea masculinity as more than what it isn't. Apologies if you've done this and I just haven't been sent notices about it. I probably only get notices when you generate a lot of buzz which probably only happens with posts like this.
i agree with you, i've met very few people of the sort that he's described, tho it does fit...a bunch of ppl i tangentially know from ivy league english/art history departments. I don't know where the poster lives, but definitely if you live in San Francisco, Chicago, or New York, these people have a large presence. But I think in America at large, they mean very little, and their time is almost certainly over. For two reasons, I've observed a) the ivy leagues are way more diverse than they were in the early 2000s, when most of these people went to college and b) the ivy leagues are under heavy attack, and internal power hierarchies are almost certainly being overturned
I’m a Bronxarican who’s lived in Europe for 25 years. I’ve had two serious relationships here and to give the women, Europeans, an idea of what they might be getting themselves into, I gave them copies of Portnoy’s Complaint and The Brief Marvelous Life of Oscar Wao to read.
"Frederick Exley, A Fan’s Notes: This might be the great American novel."
YES!!!!! I found this novel years ago in some used bookstore in NYC. Had never heard of the book or author. It blew. Me. Away. Some of the strongest, most honest, most powerful writing I've ever read. Incredible. This should be required reading.
You can't quite say he's under-appreciated -- he's had an enormously successful career -- but it irks that he's not so well-known or admired by lots of younger writers. I guess it's because he lives in Montana? Or writes mostly about men? I don't know ... he's one of the best.
Yeah, right? Ain't many writers have published more stories in the New Yorker. I agree on both counts. Never underestimate the blindness of the East Coast for all things non-California West (I grew up in AZ and know this in my bones.) Also, yeah, it's dude lit. I love Keep the Change to pieces but I wouldn't press it on my wife. Not 'cause it's misogynist or whatever. It's just not designed to twang her soul like does mine. We can have lanes, and that's fine. This is something a lot of the angry white lit man discourse leaves out, I think.
So funny! My favorite of his novels is “Nothing But Blue Skies,” and I’ve tried pushing it on my partner many times. But she gets a few pages in and sees the protagonist is an immature cattle farmer who drinks and fly fishes, and she just can’t get into it. Also in that book, as I recall, he describe's a man's erection as "the stirring of the old trouser worm."
I love me some J.D. I need to go back and reread some Ray. Been decades (I'm old). And Hemingway is the literary man's literary man. He probably couldn't land an agent today.
Great essay on an issue I wasn’t aware of, at least not in the realm of fiction writing. I guess depicting men, or any multifaceted subject for that matter, is difficult for artists with limited experience and a small capacity for introspection.
I think you’re right to just start with reading and cutting the cord. Depth is extremely hard to find online or in video- or image-based formats. A well-crafted story is always going to be superior on this score. Poetry is good too—when it’s done right.
I wonder if some of the pushback you receive is from people who’re insecure about their lack of reading. They’re the dorks who want to write the great American novel, but they can’t bother with the masters who precede them. I see a lot of this with younger generations. Unfortunately, I think my fellow millennials have led the charge on this indifference to the written word.
Just started James Alan McPherson, Elbow Room: loved the title story. Finished Bolano recently. Will make my way through the few others I haven’t already read. Great list! Thanks.
Men are meant to be men. What that is, who that is, is up to how much effort one makes to be a man. You offer a path. Those who want men not to be men are angry. It exposes the stakes. Break minds, break hearts, break limits.
Great post. I'm a Scottish literary dude and I seriously like Carver. Tremendous. And yes, questions of masculinity are very much class coded. I have had the weird life experience to have worked on an oil rig and in local factories as well as "middle class" jobs like magazine editor and headteacher so it's fascinating when you traverse the categories.
I've had a similar situation here in Upstate NY. I'm an Engineer and currently in the business world but I've been a roofer and line cook among other working class favorites. Bolano isn't gentle with his male characters in '2666'. He pretty well takes the 49% for a rough ride.
Raymond Carver was excellent. I love his story "Cathedral". I'm guessing he would love how you're pushing his work and I'm also guessing that he was called Ray by many and didn't mind. Maybe they know something I don't but I would be fine having someone push my work as Park McCoy or Mr. McCoy or the Park-man. It really does not matter. My hat's off to you for pushing the literary greats and especially to working class dudes. Epic post, Alex.
Made me laugh. I love when you write a cheeky sniping toward all, and I love both the translated tomes and Bob Dylan. :-) My hope for aspiring male writers writ large is that they find their joie de vivre, insouciance, and soulful sense of personal responsibility again! Aka, bring me the 2025 Alexander Dumas from an oil rig!
The literary establishment is like the Mean Girls table in high school.
Exactly. Corrupt Democrats (academia comes from female directed education)
Not saying that a corrupt patriarchy is any better, but letting anyone control too much leads to abuse of power, scum rising to the top
We're in a new era of genteel literature.
I don't say that in an approving way. It's just a fact, in my opinion.
It's not genteel as much as it is conformity to the politically correct standards of a corrupt matriarchy. Adapting to abuse of power strips us of positive masculinity.
I think physical action is masculine. Females can certainly have masculine energy whether it be positive or negative. Receptivity and openness is a feminine force that is required in nature just as much as action.
The action movies try to portray this positive masculinity but I think that it gets censored to show it as an easy thing to do. In real life, taking action requires courage and that's not shown in superhero movies since the hero has super powers. In real life we must take action even though we don't have super powers or connections to powerful people. I think that does a disservice to boys who grow up comparing themselves to super heroes the way we grew up comparing ourselves to models. It ruins the character.
Understood.
I was referring to the period of 18th century literature in the US that's actually called the genteel tradition.
It was a moralistic, prescriptive approach similar to what I see today, albeit with very different ideas of "good" and "bad" behaviors.
Chivalry is dead though. If it makes a comeback and people start helping women and children who have been harmed by institutions, doctors, ect., then genteel behavior might become a thing, but right now they're all predators preying on the weak, making people weak so that can prey on them, and men who side with power abusers get rewarded.
Loved this piece—almost as much as I love Ray Carver and late-era Bob Dylan. I think the anger you describe stems, at least in part, from being terminally online. There are actual studies on the link between internet saturation and rising levels of rage and depression; my aunt even wrote a book on the subject (the effects of being online, not the fury of American literary men).
Thank you for the other recommendations. I’ve saved this and will probably return with a longer reply soon. For now, I’ll just say that I’m writing an essay defending Carver, and I’ve never really read him as a “masculinity” writer. Maybe it’s because he came from a working-class background and didn’t brandish it like Hemingway did.
I guess I can claim at least some status as a liberal literary guy who's also a "regular guy who's classically masculine but unafraid of vulnerability" in a Perez test, since I was decent at sports and enlisted in the Marine Corps and worked a bunch of jobs that included physical labor. I think at least some of the lefty types who take umbrage with you are doing so because they also pass some of these tests that qualify them as classically masculine, too, and they feel you're kind of caricaturing them rather than attacking what's really there. Most of the online lefty literary types I know aren't quite as doctrinaire or radical about gender as you're painting them to be. Many do blue collar work on the side, because teaching doesn't pay shit. I'm guessing they see some of these kinds of posts as lazy and reductive. I enjoy reading your takedowns, because radical discourse about gender does exist, and it is destructive, and reaction against it did get us a nearly illiterate president surrounded by the kinds of fake Perezes you talked about. I understand that you need to do at least some provocation, but I'm still looking for a prophet who can describe the ideal beyond describing what it isn't. That's a lot harder and doesn't get as many clicks. As much as I enjoy these kinds of posts and agree with much of what's in them, I'd like to see a sustained piece from you describing idea masculinity as more than what it isn't. Apologies if you've done this and I just haven't been sent notices about it. I probably only get notices when you generate a lot of buzz which probably only happens with posts like this.
i agree with you, i've met very few people of the sort that he's described, tho it does fit...a bunch of ppl i tangentially know from ivy league english/art history departments. I don't know where the poster lives, but definitely if you live in San Francisco, Chicago, or New York, these people have a large presence. But I think in America at large, they mean very little, and their time is almost certainly over. For two reasons, I've observed a) the ivy leagues are way more diverse than they were in the early 2000s, when most of these people went to college and b) the ivy leagues are under heavy attack, and internal power hierarchies are almost certainly being overturned
I’m a Bronxarican who’s lived in Europe for 25 years. I’ve had two serious relationships here and to give the women, Europeans, an idea of what they might be getting themselves into, I gave them copies of Portnoy’s Complaint and The Brief Marvelous Life of Oscar Wao to read.
"Frederick Exley, A Fan’s Notes: This might be the great American novel."
YES!!!!! I found this novel years ago in some used bookstore in NYC. Had never heard of the book or author. It blew. Me. Away. Some of the strongest, most honest, most powerful writing I've ever read. Incredible. This should be required reading.
Alex! How did you overlook Jim Harrison and Tom McGuane?
Harrison and McGuane were on the long list. I made a few cuts. I might publish the longer list.
McGuane! Yeah man!
You can't quite say he's under-appreciated -- he's had an enormously successful career -- but it irks that he's not so well-known or admired by lots of younger writers. I guess it's because he lives in Montana? Or writes mostly about men? I don't know ... he's one of the best.
Yeah, right? Ain't many writers have published more stories in the New Yorker. I agree on both counts. Never underestimate the blindness of the East Coast for all things non-California West (I grew up in AZ and know this in my bones.) Also, yeah, it's dude lit. I love Keep the Change to pieces but I wouldn't press it on my wife. Not 'cause it's misogynist or whatever. It's just not designed to twang her soul like does mine. We can have lanes, and that's fine. This is something a lot of the angry white lit man discourse leaves out, I think.
So funny! My favorite of his novels is “Nothing But Blue Skies,” and I’ve tried pushing it on my partner many times. But she gets a few pages in and sees the protagonist is an immature cattle farmer who drinks and fly fishes, and she just can’t get into it. Also in that book, as I recall, he describe's a man's erection as "the stirring of the old trouser worm."
I love me some J.D. I need to go back and reread some Ray. Been decades (I'm old). And Hemingway is the literary man's literary man. He probably couldn't land an agent today.
Great essay on an issue I wasn’t aware of, at least not in the realm of fiction writing. I guess depicting men, or any multifaceted subject for that matter, is difficult for artists with limited experience and a small capacity for introspection.
I think you’re right to just start with reading and cutting the cord. Depth is extremely hard to find online or in video- or image-based formats. A well-crafted story is always going to be superior on this score. Poetry is good too—when it’s done right.
I wonder if some of the pushback you receive is from people who’re insecure about their lack of reading. They’re the dorks who want to write the great American novel, but they can’t bother with the masters who precede them. I see a lot of this with younger generations. Unfortunately, I think my fellow millennials have led the charge on this indifference to the written word.
You can always come back, but you can't come back all the way
Just started James Alan McPherson, Elbow Room: loved the title story. Finished Bolano recently. Will make my way through the few others I haven’t already read. Great list! Thanks.
I would say this: you can't define yourself by who you read or what you listen to or which bars you go to.
Men are meant to be men. What that is, who that is, is up to how much effort one makes to be a man. You offer a path. Those who want men not to be men are angry. It exposes the stakes. Break minds, break hearts, break limits.
How about Street Legal and Desire and Oh Mercy? I know, I know, not the point.
Great post. I'm a Scottish literary dude and I seriously like Carver. Tremendous. And yes, questions of masculinity are very much class coded. I have had the weird life experience to have worked on an oil rig and in local factories as well as "middle class" jobs like magazine editor and headteacher so it's fascinating when you traverse the categories.
I should read more of the names you mention.
I've had a similar situation here in Upstate NY. I'm an Engineer and currently in the business world but I've been a roofer and line cook among other working class favorites. Bolano isn't gentle with his male characters in '2666'. He pretty well takes the 49% for a rough ride.
Raymond Carver was excellent. I love his story "Cathedral". I'm guessing he would love how you're pushing his work and I'm also guessing that he was called Ray by many and didn't mind. Maybe they know something I don't but I would be fine having someone push my work as Park McCoy or Mr. McCoy or the Park-man. It really does not matter. My hat's off to you for pushing the literary greats and especially to working class dudes. Epic post, Alex.